Articles - Craps

"Rhythmic rollers take too long to deliver the dice and that's why the casinos get annoyed." You hear this from casino boxmen and women, pit people, dealers and even rhythmic rollers. Sharpshooter, author of Get the Edge at Craps: How to Control the Dice, cautions his students to "set the dice in two seconds." Beau, the "dice coach" (www.dicecoach.com) agrees with that two second estimate. And so I figure, do the casinos. I've sometimes rushed my shots because I thought I was taking too long to deliver the dice.

Many rhythmic rollers fear if they take too much time, the casinos might get annoyed and ban them from setting their numbers. Knowing that blackjack players have been "asked" not to play in certain establishments because they are "too good," I don't want this to befall me or any rhythmic roller.

Recently the Captain and I were discussing this issue of taking too long with the dice and he said, "How do you know rhythmic rollers take longer to deliver the dice than random rollers? How long is a craps roll on average? How long does it take for a random shooter, once the dice are in front of him, to get a decision? From point A, the pushing of the dice to the shooter, to point B, the two dice stop and the stickman calls out the number, what is the average length of time? Is there a difference between the rhythmic rollers and the random rollers in total time elapsed?" The Captain thought there might be a small difference. I figured it was a big difference.

As far as I know, no scientific study has ever been done concerning the difference between careful shooters (defined as anyone who sets the dice and takes time with the rolls) and careless shooters (defined as those who pick up the dice, shake them, kiss them, blow on them, and wing them down the layout where they bounce and bump all over the place). So I decided to do one myself. Here's what I found, checking my watch as I watched the shooters.

There was very little difference between careful and careless shooters from starting point A to decision point B. The average careful roller took between five and 10 seconds from the time the dice were passed to him until a decision was made. The careless roller took between four and 10 seconds. 

I took 10 shooters that I considered careful rollers and 10 careless shooters, and I tried to answer these questions: 

1. When the dice are pushed to the shooter and the stickman takes the stick away, how long does it take the dice to get into the air? 
2. Once the dice leave the shooter's hand, how long before a decision is rendered? 
3. What's the total elapsed time for the event? 

Here's what I found: there was only a two second difference between careful and careless rollers in the initial stages of the shoot. Careful rollers took two to four seconds for setting the dice. Careless rollers just picked up the dice. Most of the careless rollers shook the dice in their hands from two to three seconds, whereas the careful shooter, once the dice were gripped, shot them. So, the delivery stage, while slightly longer for the careful shooter, was not that much longer. The biggest difference concerned some careless shooters who never bothered to pick up the dice, but took them at felt level and flung them a nanosecond after they touched them. This accounted for the one second overall difference in the lower average time for careless shooters. 

Because the careful shooters' throws were soft, when the dice arrived at the back wall, they tended to die faster than the dice of the careless shooters, whose dice, propelled by much greater force, took that extra time to settle down.

If we were to take a typical roll, here's what it looks like from both a careful and careless shooters' viewpoints and the range of times we could expect to see: 

• Dice are delivered by stickman: Careful shooter sets the dice (2-4 seconds); Careful shooter aims (1 second); Careful shooter's dice arc and gently land  decision (2-3 seconds). Time range: 5-8 seconds.
• Dice are delivered by stickman: Careless shooter picks up the dice (1 second); Careless shooter rattles dice in his hand (2-4 seconds); Careless shooter wings them down the felt ‹ decision (2-3 seconds). Time range: 5-8 seconds.

While the overall time is the same, the pattern of each event is different. All the rhythmic rollers I watched shot from stick right or stick left, or once removed from either. The random rollers shot from everywhere. There might be a second gained or lost, but I couldn't factor that in. 

Based on my highly unscientific study (I used my wrist watch, and the number of people I "clocked" was not much of a sampling), I'd say that rhythmic rollers don't have to worry about taking too much time. They don't slow the game down; they just, hopefully, slow down the casino's profits on them when they roll. And who could possibly get upset by that? 

Frank Scoblete's books and tapes have sold over one million copies. His website is http://www.scoblete.com at RGT Online. For a free brochure of his books and tapes, call: (800) 944-0406. 

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The Numbers of Craps Part Three: 8, 9, 10   
by Frank Scoblete

Craps and life are games of numbers. From the very first, we're asked how old we are; how tall we are; what grade we're in ‹ and how much that engagement ring cost. The numbers 8, 9, and 10 bring with them both good and bad bets, and also good and bad qualities. Let's take a look, shall we?

The number 8 (aka "Ada from Decatur") is one of the two best numbers for right bettors. Right bettors, as we know, are rooting for the shooter and against the 7 on the point cycle of the game. The 8 can be made five ways: 6:2, 2:6, 5:3, 3:5 and 4:4. Only the 7 can be made more ways, six ways to be precise. The odds of the 7 being made before the 8 are six to five.

Placing the 8 comes with a 1.52% house edge. It must be Placed in multiples of $6. A winning wager pays at $7 for $6. So far so good. However, many craps aficionados love to bet a Hard 8, that is an 8 made by 4:4. Here you are wagering that the 8 made with the other combinations, and also that the 7, will not show before that 4:4. The true odds are 10 to one; the casino pays nine to one. The house edge is a whopping 9%.

In numerology, if your name has eight letters, you are the hard-driving, money-obsessed, status-conscious materialist. Eight is the number of the rich and powerful; those who hunger, not for righteousness, but for the right investments. Those who fit the sign of 8 can expect a difficult time of it in life, as they are never quite satisfied with what they have. and are always seeking more. Eight is also the first cube number and, as such, is considered the Guardian Number for craps. Eight is a perfect fit for craps. You play craps to make money; but the tendency on the part of craps players is never to be satisfied with their small or medium wins. They go for the gusto and wind up disappointed. Typical 8. Eight has some positive connotations, however. It is considered the number of "a new beginning." Thus, baptism is often given on the eighth day after birth, as is the bris (circumcision) and name for a baby boy in Judaism. Eight also represents resurrection and life after death. That means, I take it, that if you lose tonight's craps game, you can always come back tomorrow.

Nine (or "Nina from Pasadena") is the Center Field number and can be made four ways: 6:3, 3:6, 5:4, and 4:5. It is a six to four (or three to two) underdog against the 7. Placing the 9 comes with a heavy 4% house edge; although that can be reduced if the casino allows the buying of the 9 for $36 or $38 for a $1 commission. Then the edge is cut to about 2.5%, still steep. If you can't buy the 9 for the above prices, then Placing it must be done in units of $5. A winning Place bet on the 9 pays $7 to $5. Nine is often Placed in conjunction with the 5 and, when coupled with the 6 and 8, is one of the "inside numbers;" when coupled with the 4 or 10 is considered one of the "outside numbers." Thus it's Janus-faced.

In numerology, people characterized by the number 9 are considered to be possessed of a great gift for religious and social service. Nine is also considered the number of great mystic and spiritual insights. Nine does have some negative characteristics. While high-mindedly concerned with "humanity" as a whole, those characterized by 9 don't particularly care for individual human beings and are often short or ill-tempered when dealing with the plebs. There's that Janus face, again. Still, 9 is the last "real number," as 10 is just a repetition of 1 with a zero thrown in for good measure. As such, 9 is considered the most complete number. Christ completed his earthly mission and died during hour number nine. Cats have it a little better than divinities as they have nine lives. (My neighbor's cat has about 99 lives as it's been hit by several cars; attacked by dogs; and shot by a deranged escapee from a local hospital).

The 10 (or "Big Ben") can be made three ways: 6:4, 4:6, and 5:5. It is one of the two outside point numbers. It is a two to one underdog to the 7. Placing the 10 is a big mistake because the house edge on that is 6.67%. Ten is placed in units of $5 and a winning bet pays $9. However, if you buy the 10, you can reduce the house edge substantially, especially in games where the casino takes the commission from winning bets only. Then a buy of the 10 for $25, comes in with a house edge of about 1.3%. Not bad. As with any even number, reckless craps players will bet the Hard 10. This is even worse than betting the Hard 6 or Hard 8, since the house edge is 11% on the Hard 10 and 9% on the Hard 6 and 8.

The number 10 has special properties for numerologists as it can be made by adding up the first four numbers 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = 10. This is important because we have 10 digits on our hands. And why is having 10 digits such a big deal? Because it represents the basics of all constructs: 1 = a point; 2 = a line; 3 = a triangle; and 4 = a pyramid. And a pyramid is where pharaohs and cats get buried when they've exhausted their one or nine lives. Hey, one and nine = 10. I'm getting good at this; I think I'll become a numerologist. 

Frank Scoblete's books and tapes have sold over one million copies. His website is www.scoblete.com at RGT Online. For a free brochure of his books and tapes call (800) 944-0406

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Little Considered Darkside Craps Bets  
by Frank Scoblete

Craps is a game with literally hundreds of bets and combinations of bets. If you watch the typical craps game, you'll see that most players almost always make a limited selection of bets. This is especially true on the Darkside of the game.

The most popular"right bets"  at the craps table (and their house edges) are the Pass Line (1.41%) with odds (0%), followed by the Placing of the 6 and 8 (1.52%); next the Come bet (1.41%) with odds (0%) and then placing of the 5 and 9 (4%), then 4 and 10 (6.67%). Players who can afford to bet in increments of $25"buy"  the numbers 4 and 10 in order to reduce the house edge. A buy of the 4 or 10 can come in with house edges as low as 1.3%, depending on whether you play the commission only on winning bets or on both winning and losing bets.

The second tier of"right bets,"  the proposition bets, or, as the Captain refers to them,"The Crazy Crapper Bets,"  are the hard 6 and 8 (9.09%), the hard 4 or 10 (11.11%); followed by the Any Craps, the Yo-Eleven, the Whirl or World and then the Field.     Most craps players are well aware of these bets.

The Darkside or Don't bettor, also known as a"wrong bettor,"  has a somewhat more limited number of bets he can make. The most common"wrong bets"  are the Don't Pass (1.4%) with odds (0%); followed by the Don't Come (1.4%) with odds (0%). These are followed by the"lay"  bets against the 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, or 10. The"lay"  bet actually functions as a"buy"  bet because you pay a 5% commission to get the"true odds"  of the numbers you're betting against. The edges on the lay bets are not good. For the 4 or 10, you bet $40 to win $20, after the 5% commission is extracted. This gives the house a 2.44% edge.

On the 5 or 9, you lay $30 to win $20, the house edge after commission being 3.23%. On the 6 or 8, you lay $24 to win $20 and the house edge, after commission, is 4%. Most Darksiders stop there, often thinking those are the be-all and end-all of Darkside wagering.

There are many strange and little-utilized or unknown bets that can be made on the Darkside of craps, some of these even have decent house edges and are therefore worthy of actually considering. Take the Darksider bet known as a"Place to Lose"  of the 6 or 8. This bet must be made in multiples of $5 and will win $4 if successful. Here you are betting that the 7, which has six ways of being made, will appear before either the 6 or 8. Since there are five ways to make a 6 or 8, when you"Place to Lose,"  you must put up the long end of the bet, since you are favored to win it. The casino gets its edge by making the wager pay $4 for $5, instead of $5 for $6 (which would be the true odds of the bet). The house edge on the wager is 1.82%, not much different than the Place bet of 6 or 8 which comes in at 1.52%. So for Darksiders this is not a bad bet.

Darksiders could also consider a Place to Lose bet on the 5 or 9. Here you put up $8 to win $5. The true odds of the bet are 9 to 6 (or 3 to 2), so the casino structures the bet to give itself a 2.5% edge. This is better than the Place bet a right bettor can make on the 5 or 9, which comes in with a 4% house edge.

Finally, you can place the 4 or 10 to lose by putting up $11 to win $5. The true odds of the bet are 2 to 1. In a fair game, where neither the casino nor the player has an edge, you'd see the bet as $10 to win $5. That extra dollar the casino makes you place on your end of the wager gives the casino a 3.03% house edge. However, compared to the normal Rightside Place of the 4 or 10, with its 6.67% house edge, the Darkside 3.03% doesn't look so bad.

You will note that these bets compare very favorably with the"lay"  bets and, perhaps even more important, they can be made for substantially less money. They also compare quite favorably with the Rightside"Place to Win"  bets as the chart  at the bottom of this page clearly shows (the lay bets have a 5% commission).

In fact, Darksiders have an overall better"place-betting"  game than do Rightsiders, with only the 6 and 8 coming in with slightly higher house edges on the Darkside than on the Rightside on these little-known, little-used bets. If you are the type of player who doesn't mind being ostracized at the table (as most Darksiders are), then you might consider utilizing these bets instead of the more traditional"lay"  bets where you must pay a 5% commission on your Darkside placements and bet minimums that might be uncomfortably high for you.

Frank Scoblete's books and tapes have sold over one million copies. His website is www.scoblete.com at RGT Online. For a free brochure of his books and tapes, call: (800) 944-0406.

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Craps' Best Bets  
by John Grochowski

Repeat after me: Casino games are not designed to intimidate. Casinos do not want to chase away customers. They want you to play.

Every casino game is simple at its core. Maybe not all are as simple as pulling the handle and waiting for the result on a three-reel slot machine. But baccarat is just a guessing game and anyone who can add to 21 can learn to play blackjack.

And then there's craps. Craps is the game that most intimidates newcomers. There are dozens of betting options on the layout, and some that aren't even specified on the table felt. The game moves so fast it's difficult for a newbie to keep up with just who won and why. The table always seems to be full of veteran players, who know all the ins and outs. The poor novice, who may have heard that craps has one of the lowest house edges around, more often than not, slinks off to the slots before placing a single bet.

Here's a little secret: you don't have to know every possible wager to rank right in there with the best craps players. Most of the bets at the craps table aren't worth making. You say you don't know what C&E is, or the horn, or a hard 4? No problem. Players who make those wagers spot a little too much to the house anyway.

You're much better off to stick with the few bets with low house edges, the bets that give you the best shot to win. Learn these best bets of craps and ignore the rest, and your game will stack up favorably.

THE PASS LINE
Players who try to pick up the game by just watching a few rolls sometimes find the pass line wager so confusing that they give up trying. Yet I've taught players the basics of this bet in five minutes. My wife, who doesn't play craps and has always insisted she just didn't"get"  the game, picked up the pass line in a few minutes practicing with a pair of dice on our dining room table.

The pass line is one of the best bets in the casino, with a house edge of just 1.41%. That means that in the long run, for every $100 you wager, you can expect to lose $1.41. That's a narrow enough edge that you can expect some nice winning sessions along the way. It's a much narrower edge than you'll find on roulette (5.26%), Let It Ride (3.5%) or Caribbean Stud (5.22% of the ante, or 2.8% of the ante-bet combination). It's even a lower house edge than an average blackjack player will face. Blackjack has a variable house edge of about 2% to 2.5% against an average player, although a player who takes the time to learn basic strategy can trim that to 0.5% or less, depending on house rules.

Pass bets may take several rolls to decide. That's a good thing. It gives the house edge fewer chances to work against you than if you're making one-roll bets. There's a sequence in which the goals of the pass bettor change. It's that sequence that newbies find confusing, but when you break it down, it's not all that difficult.

Here's how it works. You place your bet on the pass line, which runs all around the table, directly in front of the players. The sequence starts with a comeout roll. If, on the comeout, the shooter rolls a 7 or 11, everyone who bets on the pass line wins. If the shooter rolls a 2, 3 or 12, everyone on the pass line loses. If the roll is 4, 5, 6, 8, 9 or 10, that becomes the point number.

When the shooter rolls a point number on the comeout, the object of the game changes. Seven is no longer a winning number ‹ it's a loser. For pass bettors to win, the shooter must roll that number again before rolling the next 7. If the 7 shows up first, the pass bettors lose. No other numbers but the point and the 7 affect the wager. Winning bets pay even money, just as they do on the don't pass, come and don't come wagers described below. If you win a $5 bet, you'll be paid $5.

Let's walk through a sequence. On the come out roll, the shooter rolls a 10. That becomes the point. He then rolls 4 - 2 - 9 - 6 - 5 - 8 - 8 again - 6. None of those rolls affect the pass wagers. The players' chips just stay on the table. (Other bets are being decided along the way, mostly bets that we choose to ignore, so don't fret about others winning or losing while you're awaiting the pass line outcome). Finally the shooter rolls another 10, and a big cheer goes up from the table. All the pass bettors win together, and the shooter keeps the dice for another come out roll and another pass sequence.

If the shooter had rolled a 7 instead, all the pass bettors would have lost, and the shooter's turn would have ended. The dice would then have been offered to the next player to the shooter's left for the next come out roll.

Players who learn nothing more than the pass line sequence, who do nothing but make pass bets, will face a lower house edge than most of the veteran players at the table.

DON'T PASS
Just about every bet at the craps table has an opposite number. Don't pass is the opposite of pass.

Start by placing a bet on the don't pass bar. On the comeout roll, the don't pass bettor wins if the roll is a 2 or 3 and loses if the roll is 7 or 11. That's almost the exact opposite of the situation for pass bettors, except that while pass bettors lose on 12, don't pass bettors just push, and have their bets returned to them. If the roll is 4, 5, 6, 8, 9 or 10, that number becomes the point. Don't pass bettors win if a 7 turns up before the shooter repeats the point number, and lose if the point number rolls first.

The house edge of 1.4% on don't pass is actually slightly lower than the house edge of 1.41% on pass bets. It can be a lonely way to go, however. The large majority of players prefer the camaraderie of betting with the shooter, and may even show resentment toward someone going the opposite way.

COME/DON'T COME
Come and don't come bets are the same as pass and don't pass, except that they're made at different points of the betting sequence. Make pass or don't pass bets on the come out roll, but you can bet come or don't come at any time. The next roll serves as your come out for the come or don't come bet.

Usually come and don't come bets are used to give a player a second or third working number. Most players want more action than simply waiting for a decision on the pass line. Come bets are a way to get there at that same low 1.41% house edge, and don't come bets yield the same 1.4% house edge as don't pass bets

Let's say you've bet on the pass line, and the shooter rolls a 6. That's the point number. You decide you want another number working, so you place a bet in the come area directly in front of you, just beyond the pass line. If the shooter's next roll is a 7 or 11, you win your come bet (although a 7 makes your pass bet a loser). If the roll is 2, 3 or 12, you lose your come bet (and your pass bet is unaffected). If the roll is any other number, that becomes your come point.

Now let's say that with the point number at 6 on the pass line, you place a come bet and the shooter rolls a 9. Now, if the shooter rolls a 6 before the next 7, you win your pass bet while your come bet remains active. If the shooter rolls a 9, you win your come bet. If the shooter rolls a 7 before either a 6 or a 9, you lose both bets.

If you're betting don't come, the same rules apply as on the don't pass. On the first roll after you place the bet, you lose if the roll is 7 or 11 (although that 7 makes your don't pass bet a winner), you win if the roll is 2 or 3, or push on 12. If the roll is anything else, that becomes youre don't pass point. Let's say you've bet don't pass and the point is 6, and followed with a don't come bet with a point of 9. If a 7 rolls before either, you win both bets. If the shooter rolls a 9 first, you lose your don't come bet, but your don't pass bet against 6 remains active.

FREE ODDS
Craps players have a good thing with their pass, come, don't pass and don't come wagers. They can make it even better by taking advantage of free odds. After the shooter establishes a point number, the player can back up pass or come wagers with another bet. Just how big that second wager can be depends on house rules. If single odds are offered, the free odds bet can be equal to the original wager; at double odds, the free odds can be twice the original bet. Some casinos offer triple odds, 10x odds, 100x odds, even 200x odds. You don't have to take all the free odds available. If 100x odds are permitted, but your budget will permit only double odds, then stick to double odds.

The attraction of free odds is that they are paid at the true odds of winning the bet, so there is no house edge on the free odds portion of the wager. If the point is 6 or 8, winning free odds wagers are paid at 6-5 odds (bet $5, win $6); on 5 or 9, the free odds pay 3-2, and on 4 or 10, the free odds pay 2-1.

The effect of all this is to lower the overall house edge of the pass-and-odds or come-and-odds combination. Instead of a 1.41% house edge, the pass-single odds bettor faces a house edge of just 0.8%; with double odds, that falls to 0.6%, then drops to 0.5% at triple odds, 0.2% at 10x odds and 0.02% at 100x odds.

The odds are best used to reduce your pass or come bet. Let's say you're at a table that permits at least double odds. Instead of betting $25 on the pass line, you might reduce your pass bet to $10, then take $20 in double odds whenever a point is established. That reduces the amount of your wager that is exposed to the house edge on the pass line, while putting more of your money into the no-edge free odds.

Don't pass and don't come players may lay the odds. Again, there is no house edge, even though don't bettors who lay the odds must wager $6 for every $5 they hope to win against 6 or 8, $3 to win $2 against 5 or 9 or $2 to win $1 against 4 or 10. Those just reflect the true odds of a 7 turning up before any of those numbers.

John Grochowski is Midwest Gaming & Travel's Casino Q&A columnist, syndicated gaming columnist for the Chicago Sun-Times and the author the Answer Book gambling series.

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Learning The Language of Craps
by Dave Guzman and Chris Fagans 

Have you ever gone over to the craps tables just to watch the game for awhile? Next time instead of just watching, try listening to the dealers and the stick person. You will soon discover that there is a different language out there. It’s a language that only dealers and craps players understand. No one person will ever teach you this language or lingo, it’s something that you will have to learn over the years from listening to many players and stick people. 

On the craps tables, calling out a number can be a work of art. You need to be quick-witted and hope that you don’t get tongue-tied. There are different ways to say just about everything on the craps table. 

For example, if a new player came to the game and wanted to shoot, the dealer might say something like this: Pick a pair and put them in the air and please hit the alligator on the other end. What did the dealer just say, you ask? The dealer just told the player to pick up two dice and hit the wall at the end of the table. There are literally thousands of one liners like that used on the dice table. 

The stick person is usually the one doing all the talking. This person keeps the game moving and exciting for the players. The stick person will tell you everything from throw the dice: Do a Jeffrey Dahmer, throw up a hand, to telling you to place bets across the table: Six and eight while you wait, or Go across and be the boss. The stick person may even be nice enough to ask the ladies if they Want up on a hard eight, when it’s the point of course. 

The stick person has to be a salesman. Just like in advertising, the better the commercial, the more products the company will sell. This works the same on the craps tables. There are bets out there that the casino wants sold, and what better way to sell them than to advertise them in a very colorful way. 

Would you like a C and E? No, not interested? Well then how about a Crazy Elvis or maybe you just want a Craps cheque. Not interested in that either? Well then how about Any for a penny? When you hear the stick person using the more colorful lingo out there, the bets start to fly, and the game gets more exciting. 

There are some basic calls that are used over and over again like: Yo eleven front line winner, Nine, center field nine, or Coming out now. They are just as effective, but may not be as colorful as some of the unique one-liners like: Bet’em up while they clean’em up, Seven out. Cinco, dos and adios, or Ten hard the Ripper. 

Some of the lingo can only be used in certain regions around the country. For instance, a dealer down south sent me a call they use for seven out that went something like this: Seven out. 61, that road brought you here and it will take you home. Their casino is just off highway 61. As we all know seven rolls more than any other number on the table, so there are many ways that dealers call this number. Most of the time you will hear: Seven out line away, Seven out line away, don’ts you pay, or Seven again, you win again. Then there are those more colorful ways to say it. Seven front line winner, back line skinner, Seven a winner, save the tops, we own the bottoms, or Seven out, if you just came, you’re still in the game. 

Every combination of the dice can be followed up with a very unique stick call all it’s own. Here are some examples. 

• Two: Crap. Aces in both places.
• Three: Crap. The ole one-two.
• Four: It’s a Joe, not a yo. 
• Five: Fever in the funk house. 
• Six: 2x4 the lumber number. 
• Hard Eight: Eight hard, the square pair. 
• Nine: What shot Jesse James? There is only one answer to that question so you better roll a 4-5. 

I see that you just bought the 10 for $25. You better roll a pair of stars or puppy paws if you want to be paid on that bet. 

There are even ways to call the dice when they are thrown and land in the rail: 

• No good in the wood. 
• Too high to qualify. 
• No roll, number in the lumber. 

How many times have you seen the dice get thrown on the floor?   I once saw a player who kept throwing them on the floor and the dealer said, We have a $5,000 table and you want to play on the floor. He probably should have said something like, Hip hop, it’s over the top, or Die on the ground, look around it must be found, or Die down and out. 

All this colorful language is what makes this game so fun. There are many different ways to say things and to build the excitement of the game. As a player you need to be aware of the different lingo used on the table. How many times have you forgotten to pick up your winning bet? You need to pick up your winning bet right away or the dealer might say, If it lays it plays two ways. If you agree, your winning bet just became a dealer bet. 

— Chris Fagans and Dave Guzman are the authors of A Guide to Craps Lingo from Snake Eyes to Muleteeth. In their book you will find colorful one-liners and humorous short stories about craps. Dave currently is working at Catfish Bend Casino in southeast Iowa and Chris lives in Minnesota and works in the radio business. Visit their website at www.crapslingo.com

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